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Karen Rodgers's avatar

KarenThanks Alicia,

and they effectively attempted to euthanase my father in 2016.. as son as the doctor knew he had signed a DNR he wouldn't treat him. I had to fight.. like you.

ISo many people are asleep at the whell on this matter and I deeply appreciate what you are doing to wake them up,

bless you,

Karen

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Thanks Alicia, Its happening here too. I attended the "Intellectual Forum" in Cambridge on 30th November 2024 on Assisted dying.. here below my email feedback to the organisers;

Incidemntally the "Citizens Jury" was beautifully organised to deliver the required result. The comment that they did not know the outcome in advance seems to me to be deeply disingenuous

bless you,

Karen in Cambridge, Uk

Happy New Year..I hope you had a restful and joyful Christmas.

I realise on receiving the notification of this term's Intellectual Forum, in all the preparations in the lead-up to Christmas, I had not yet sent you those links I promised..at the session "Exploring public opinion on assisted dying";

They are below.

The organisers, proposers and speakers at the Forum were all highly articulate, had clearly prepared their presentations with great care and were calmly focussed on getting their message across.

I note that the televised event was very efficiently and skillfully organised.. to deliver and to make compelling to the viewers one particular point of view. I note that each time a really pertinent question was asked, the person steering the discourse moved seemlessly on, so no answer was obtained.

It was explained early on that evening that a debate format had been considered but in the end the forum format had been adopted because debates are so divisive..

I observe that this is an argument against the very essence of democracy. If we are in serious earnest about preserving the democratic discourse on which our whole British constitution and social contract crucially depend, we will make the necessary effort to promote freedom of speech and to have those very debates without which there is no consensus at all, only the imposition of a particular agenda, debates which are the most divisive precisely because they involve the most pressing matters and the most weighty vested interests.

My question for the evening, which was neatly side-stepped and never answered, is crucial..

This was;

"If this Bill is all about "empowered choice" [as it was described], why are those care managers who decide what treatment to fund and who gets this treatment almost uniformly in favour and why is every single organistion representing those vulnerable groups which the Bill is supposed to be empowering, uniformly against these proposals?"

Apart from a general acceptance that any change in the law would requre "adjustments", there was one and only one instance of a proposer mentioning anything contrary to the assertion that the outcomes of assisted dying could be anything other than positive.This was the acknowledgement of the concern that, if enacted, the measures could make those who are sick less likely to consult a doctor for fear of being euthanased. This is a weighty concern but even that is not the weightiest.

Like the boy scout eager to get his "helpful" badge, it is all very well for him to be skilled in helping little old ladies across the road but he needs to be told in a way he will understand that not all little old ladies want to go there. The supporters of this Bill, so keen to share "lived experience" when it is from those in favour of the proposals, urgently need to be faced with the testimony of those whom they purport to be empowering..

They could usefully start with Liz Carr's excellent documentary on the link below, any mention of which was strangely absent from the Intellectual Forum's discourse.

To be genuinely intellectual the Forum needs to engage in genuine debate.

And even if we sleep-walk into legalising the killing of patients by doctors, we will still ultimately be morally culpable for the consequences and will indeed suffer them ourselves when we are old and/ or vulnerable.

The time to give voice to those who are being silenced by very weighty vested interests, is now.

most sincerely and with warmest regards,

Karen Rodgers

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"If you think this is just about terminal illness, think again. This is about disability... it is coming at us from all angels like a pincer movement.. these laws will put marginalised lives like this at risk, and those risks will be fatal ... Assisted suicide creates a two-tier system; suicide prevention for some; suicide approval for others..giving the option and the right to a group of people puts another group of people at risk.... the Canadian Medical Association has published an analysis showing how MAID could possibly save its public health care system hundreds of millions of dollars .... MAID is being chosen for reasons which have nothing to do with health .. These things give me a shiver and a fear and an absolute; "please don't let this happen in the UK.."

Liz Carr; "Better Off Dead?"

Video under an hour;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G_xF4dvS-U

www.bbc.co.uk/ betteroffdead

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Assisted dying: A Citizens’ Juror finds it’s already stitched up; ". Those willing to participate were asked to register on the website of the Sortition Foundation, which had been engaged to recruit jury members ensuring they were broadly representative of the population. I registered and it was here that I had my first surprise.One of the questions sought my views on the jury topic itself, viz whether the law (in England) should be changed to permit AD. That’s not how I think juries work. Jurors are normally expected to hear the evidence before deciding." The AB Charitable Trust.which funded the focus group has also funded campaigning organisition which exist to promote medically induced dying.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/assisted-dying-a-citizens-juror-finds-its-already-stitched-up/

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/citizens-assemblies-a-choreographed-charade/

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Recent studies delineate that a significant number of people are forgoing essential care, driven into desperation due to the skyrocketing expenses (source: Scope figures). There is a persistent negligence of the dire impact on the most vulnerable members of our society.

https://www.change.org/p/lets-demand-a-review-of-rising-social-care-charges-by-local-authorities

https://www.change.org/p/lets-demand-a-review-of-rising-social-care-charges-by-local-authorities

The British government has announced a new commission that it hopes will build a ‘national consensus’ on social-care reform... reporting in.. 2028. Whereas it is in a truly undsemly hurry to legalise euthanasia.. PM Starmer boasts an enormous parliamentary majority, and as a result has little trouble navigating the passage of bills. So why is Labour prioritising assisted suicide over social care?

https://alexschadenberg.blogspot.com/2025/01/why-is-uk-labour-party-putting-assisted.html

Luc Van Gorp is in favour of MAID. This is his reason; “I .. compare the aging people with a mountain of meat, [that] starts to smell.’” Luc Van Gorp, head of Christian Mutuality (CM), the president of Belgium’s largest health care fund has promoted euthanasia as a solution for the country’s aging population problem.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/president-belgian-health-insurance-euthanasia-aging-population

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Their reply;

Dear Karen,

Thank you for your good wishes, we all had a wonderful Christmas although it already feels like a very long time ago.

Julian and the team are grateful to you for taking the time both to write and send highly pertinent links on this important topic. As I’m certain you can appreciate, many months of hard work and thought went into preparing the Death and Dying series. Foremost in our minds at all times was the need to approach the subjects, speakers and audience members’ views with respect and impartiality. We carefully curated the series and its speakers to reflect as wide a range of views as possible whilst aware that, in such an emotive and divisive subject in Assisted Dying, we would be unable to cover all points of view and media output in the allotted time.

We regret that you feel your question went unanswered. Your points are valid, and we are sorry if you have concerns that insufficient weighting was given to them. As a team, we have been grateful for the feedback on this series, the overwhelming majority of which has been positive but we’re always striving to improve our events and are thus grateful for your evaluation.

Finally, I hope you will understand that the IF was unaware of the findings of the Citizens’ Jury when we convened the panel much earlier in 2024; the key findings were published in September. Regardless of its findings, however, the event would have gone ahead.

I very much hope to see you at future events and that you will not hesitate to contact me if I may be of assistance.

Kind regards,

Charlotte

Charlotte Newman

Intellectual Forum Coordinator

Jesus College, Cambridge

CB5 8BL

Registered charity no. 1137462

01223 760588 | if-events@jesus.cam.ac.uk

Twitter: @intellforum

Facebook: /intellforum

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